The Growth Mindset

Episode 269 - Sanjib Kalita/Todd Westra

 

Todd Westra

Sanjib Kalita

 

02:13 Hey, we are so excited today to welcome onto the show, Sanjib Kalita. And he has an amazing company that he's been able to grow and scale over the past few years, and we cannot wait to hear about him. We're gonna dive deeper into him and who he is. Sanjib, tell us who you are and what do you do?

 

02:33 Thank you very much Todd. Really glad to be here. Um, Sanjib Kalita, I'm the CEO of Guppy.ai, and what Guppy does is basically enables consumers and businesses to truly own their data. As opposed to being beholden to these, uh, you know, nebulous third parties that, you know, that do all kinds of, you know, things we don't want to do with our data and so we're doing this with blockchain technology and uh, it's, it's, it's, it's been, it's been a challenge, but it's been fun.

 

03:07 Now, Sanjib. You're gonna have to do me a favor, because I know exactly what you're talking about. When it comes to data and what people do with data. Most people are bolivious to what happens in the world when people get ahold of data. 

 

03:21 Sure. Absolutely. So, so I, I guess, let, let me start off by saying that, I, I used to work at Citibank in, in the credit card business. I used to help manage, you know, a 30 billion dollar credit card portfolio. So, really, really familiar with the credit card and, and how we're using like, credit bureau data. Um, but I left Citi, you know, about, you know, 12 years ago, 13 years ago to work on startups and, um, and I, I actually in, if I go back 10 years, April 1st, 2012, Uh, I, I guess now it's 11 years, April 1st, 2012, I got engaged. April 2nd, 2012, Google acquired the startup I was working on, uh, April 13th. I was, uh, buying an apartment in Manhattan and April 29th, um, that basically  was our wedding date because, um, my, one of my parents was sick, so we just wanted to, you know, get married as quickly as possible, and so, so it was a crazy month.

 

04:22 And that, that is a crazy month. Yes. That's a lot of life functions. 

 

04:25 Yes. Uh, all, all of the life events in one month and,

 

04:29 Holy cow. 

 

04:30 And, and, uh, because I was buying the apartment, they pulled my credit report according to the credit report. I was, um, married to a man in California. I had five foreclosures, four bad auto loans. They, they, they said I lived in New York, so they had some stuff. Uh, but, but then obviously a lot of stuff wrong, so, uh, 

 

04:50 Holy cow! 

 

04:51 Yeah. So, so, so and 

 

04:52 How's your ex-husband?

 

04:56 He was a bit disconcerted that I was getting married again, so 

 

05:00 I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm sure they can legalize that now anyway.

 

05:05 Yeah, no, it was, uh, it, it, it was, it was a surprise, to say the least. And, uh, but the other surprise was like getting it cleared up was so painful. And, and like I said, I, I was an industry insider. I was used to using these data sources and, and, and like, and, and I didn't know until like I had, I was trying to buy my apartment and it was like, you, you, unfortunately, a lot of people don't know until it's like critical. 

 

05:32 They need it. Yeah. 

 

05:33 And they need it and, and, and, and, and so, um, and, and, and, you know, go for that. That sort of got my mind thinking, okay, this system needs to change. Yeah. Um, and, and, and, and to actually just a quick add-on to that. Like, I know, even though I monitor my data, like I, I, I know that someone has opened up a credit card, uh, some accounts in Miami. I've never been in Miami. And, and, and so it, it, it's you never know what happens with your data. 

 

05:58 Well, I, I can tell you right now as a, um, a former owner of a call center, uh, during that time period, uh, data was so loose. I mean, people were, I, I would sometimes buy, uh, lists to call on.  and occasionally those lists would come with credit card numbers on file.

 

06:20 Mm-hmm.Oh, wow. 

 

06:21 And I mean, that's how loose data used to be. Now they've implemented a lot of new laws and people get caught with that. They're going to jail. You know, I mean, it, it is not a, a good thing to have happen right now, but it's still happens, and it's very, very important for people to understand the problem that you solve is huge. I mean, it's so huge. So, so tell us, tell us how you got into this professionally, I mean, how did you pivot and turn this into an actual business.

 

06:50 Sure, sure. So, so, so, uh, j just, uh, so, so we, we sold that company into Google. Then I actually, uh, left Google to help build a, a FinTech conference business called Money 2020.

 

07:02 Um, awesome. 

 

07:03 About, and, and, and we grew that. And we sold that as well and, uh, but I was in charge of putting together the agenda picking speakers. And so, you know, back in like, you know, 2012, 13, 14, like I was putting together sessions about Bitcoin and and, and, uh, and then, you know, I, I used to meet with one of my, uh, really good friends and we used to meet and grab a beer and talk about business ideas and, and, and, uh, right. And he talked about, uh, Bitcoin and like, he was like, oh, what, what if we do something with like lending. You know, Bitcoin or, uh, and, and I was like, actually, I think you can use that infrastructure for something completely different and make that data, um, data infrastructure transparent or, or more understandable. And, and so that's sort of how we, we got onto this, this path and, uh, yeah. So, so when, when, when we first started playing around with it, like there was, there's no Ethereum, there was only Bitcoin and, and, and then, you know, we, we've sort of been, it's been a long path. I absolutely can relate to that. 

 

08:11 Listen. Oh, I can! believe me. Yeah.. I understand. But something that's been interesting that you, you've mentioned now, two other business that you casually mentioned that you exited? Yeah, I mean, for, for most people the, the venture of building something and selling it off to someone like Google is an enormous accomplishment. So first of all, congratulations on that exit. 

 

08:35 Thank you. 

 

08:36 And then you mentioned very subtly another business you built and exited, uh, on the, on the, uh, event thing. I mean, it sounds like this comes very naturally. What is it about growing this business in FinTech and, and using, you know, blockchain and all these other things to, to build a new business model? What is it about that whole growth process that's, would you say is like your favorite part?

 

09:02 So I, I, I, that's an awesome question and, and I, I will actually go back to the first startup I worked on. Which we didn't have an exit on, which was an educational technology company. We were trying to bring online classes onto social network platform. We did the first official, Khan Academy app did apps for MIT For Cornell. This is back in like nice 2009 or 10, so a while ago. And, and, and, um, and uh, I remember at one point, uh, like Time Magazine listed our, one of our MIT app as top 50 of the year, we were listed as one of the top 10 most, uh, innovative companies in education by Fast Company Magazine. Even though there were literally only two people. And, and, and, and, and, and so for me, the, the biggest learning there was like, you know, uh, a small group of highly motivated, highly talented people can do a lot. They, they, they, and, and, you know, coming from the corporate world where you had a lot more people, you, you know, you, you wouldn't necessarily believe, Um, and 

 

10:05 Bureaucracy?

 

10:06 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, and, and, and so working on something and, and obviously we worked really hard, but, um, you know, our, the, the, I I think the, the, the thing I love the most is that working in startups is that what you think about has a much higher chance of becoming reality than if you work at a big company. And, and

 

10:30 Interesting 

 

10:31 that, that, that, that, that's a bit of the motivate.  l l let's make this vision real. Let's make it, let's make other people try it out.

 

10:38 I love it. I love it. So, so you now, uh, you've had a one business that you didn't necessarily exit. You have another couple that you've exited. You've got one that you've built. Right now, what, you know, I think a lot of people failed to, to think about when they're launching a business, all they can think about is launching. You know, all they can think about is, is getting this thing off the ground, generating some revenue and making things. What is it about the next stage that people oftentimes forget? Like you, you talked about being able to make decisions. You talked about being able to, uh, you know, enable something to happen that maybe you couldn't in a bigger organization, but like, I'm just kind of curious. Your take on post-launch, how do you strategize to build that exit?

 

11:26 Yeah. That, that, that's a great question. I, I think. One of the things that I found is that it is, uh, so important not to be afraid to be different. Um, yeah and, and, and to differentiate yourself. Um, like, like if I go to Money 2020, um, a a actually, when, when we were, uh, you know, back in 2014, you know, we, we, we, we, we launched in 2000. First event was 2012. Second 2013, and then 2014, uh, you know, was the, uh, was the exit. But in, in the midst of that process, actually, um, we wanted to continue to grow the business. First year between the first and second year, you know, we doubled and, you know, we're, we're pretty, pretty decent scale for the industry. And then that third year, we, uh, in retrospect, we wound up doubling again. But that was not a done deal so, for example, um, that year I put together a, a rap video about being a FinTech entrepreneur. Uh, and, and, and, um, and, and, and, um, and, and this is pre, 

 

12:36 This is pre TikTok? 

 

12:38 Yes. Pre TikTok! And, and, and, and, and so we actually got several, uh, CEO’s or industry leaders to be part of it. Uh, we hired, uh, one of the actors from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. From two broke girls from office space, uh, and we.. And it, it was like a, it was like a high, it was a, it was a well produced video and I love it. And, and, and, and also, uh, I, I hope this isn't, uh, this is okay, but like our, our hook was, it was about a, a payments entrepreneur who's doing a, a biometric uh, payment application. So rather than, uh, identifying you by your eye or your fingerprint, it identified you by your butt. So, so, so, so the hook was, it was pay by ass. 

 

13:23 I love it. 

 

13:24 And, and, and it, you know, we're obviously poking fun at everything, um but in a fun way. But, but like, you know, that, that was like definitely pushing the bounds of the industry, but like, but, but like, because of that, like people, you know, they, they, they, they got a chuckle outta it. 

 

13:39 Paid attention.

 

13:40 Yeah, they, they paid attention. And, and I'm, I'm, I'm sure that, that, that didn't help, that that didn't hurt us in our valuation, you know, when we're, when you're trying to exit.

 

13:47 Right. Right. I mean, I mean, there's a lot to think about when you're trying to exit and, and, you know, I, I, sadly, I meet a lot of entrepreneurs, who don't have an exit plan. They just kind of move forward with hoping that they can just keep growing until some future point that I don't even think they really imagine what's at the end of the, of the road there. And, and I love how casual you've been talking about, you know, this one, we led to this exit, this one didn't exit, this one. You know, how do you help? I, I see a big challenge in the, in the, in the founder space of people who don't see that, who don't see a way out, they just kind of picture themselves in their business and they're stuck in their business forever. How do you help someone kind of, see the light, that there's more businesses in your head and in your heart than just this one thing? 

 

14:43 Yeah. Uh, that is such a difficult, uh, question because it's, it's like, um, on one hand, you know, the only way you're gonna be a successful entrepreneur is by having the sticktoitiveness, you know, the, the ability to withstand all of  the naysayers, um, and at the same time, um, it's also important to recognize, you know, what, what is the end game? Um, and, and, uh, and I, I, I think it, it, it's, it's a bit like, um, you, you know, like I'll go back to one, one of my college friends, he, he used to talk about like how after, you know, when you're in school, you know, you have freshman year, sophomore year, you, you know, there's, there's bounds and everything is time bound and you know what you're going towards. But he was like, yeah, and I, I graduated and like it just goes on forever, it never ends, and, and I was like, yeah. And I was still in school. I was like, oh, I never thought about it in that context. So it, I, I do think that it's, um, you know, part of it is a bit of, um, you know, understanding like what, what, what's, what's your goal? Um, and, um, So, so, you know, there's, there's financial goals, there's personal goals, there's professional goals. Um, and, and, and I, and I think that a lot of times it's, you know, you, you, you get caught up in stuff and, and like, so let, let, let's just say like, oh, I wanna make, you know, million dollars. And, and then, then you, you get into it. Then they're like, oh yeah, don't, don't be happy unless you make a hundred million dollars. That's obviously a very different thing. So like, I, I mean, think about, you know, this also, you know, re requires a bit of like, okay, what's important to you? Um, right. I, I, I also find that, um, it's, I'm, I'm sure you can relate to this too, it's like, it, it does take a toll on other, as you know, being an entrepreneur takes toll on other aspects of your life. So if, if, if, um, you, you, I, I, I, the way I think about it, like people talk about balance in life and I don't, I think it's impossible to have a balance in point in time, but it's better to have a balance over a, a timeframe. So, so like, you know, you can't be a hundred percent on work all the time. But if you spread it out like that, that's sort of a,

 

17:06 There's like little sprints, right? 

 

17:07 Yeah. 

 

17:08 There's a sprint where you're focusing on startup and launch. There's a sprint where you've gotta spend some time with your family a little bit. There's a sprint where you've gotta, you know, really focus on, on other important things and just your business, right? Yeah. Is that kind of what you're pointing at.  

 

17:21 Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

 

17:23 I like that. Yeah. That's a fun concept. 

 

17:25 Yeah. No, I, I, and I, I, I mean, it, it, it's, it's sort of, because you otherwise, like I, I probably, like a lot of people you've see in the news, like you end up like a, a weird person who can't relate to anyone, you know? 

 

17:40 Right, right. No, there's definitely that too. And, uh, we all know those people, but, but I'll tell you what, um, this is inspiring. You know, a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of founders, when they get going in their business and they hit some walls, they hit some challenges, like, like,  like we've been talking about, like not knowing where your exit path is. How, how do you, how do you get through that? Is there someone in your network you look at that you're just like, oh my gosh, every time I feel like I hit a wall, I just look at so and so and they kind of inspire me to keep moving. They inspire me to keep, keep going.

 

18:19 Yeah. I, I, I, I would say like a, a lot of the folks that I, I've worked with on startups over the years, like yeah, they, they're, they're definitely, you know, we, we've sort of been in the trenches, if you will, and so we, we can call each other up and, and, you know, there's a bit of, uh, history there. Uh, another piece is, uh, I obviously like, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm married. My wife is very supportive too, and uh,

 

18:43 Hundred percent!

 

18:44 Which is like, You know, if, if you don't have that, then you know, all bets are out. 

 

18:49 It's hard. 

 

18:50 Yeah,

 

18:52 Yeah. No, and, and especially, uh, you know, when she found out you had a husband, that must have been awkward. That was an interesting challenge to get out. No, what a fun story. So, so as you, as you look at people like your wife and, and you hit these walls, you. I would say that for me, that's probably one, been one of my biggest influences as well. You know, we we're going on 25 years of marriage.

 

19:24 Oh, wow!

 

19:25 But we did 25 years last summer. And, um, I don't know how she puts up with me being an entrepreneur and a founder and, uh, trying to launch and grow things all the time and support a family. It's not an easy thing. 

 

19:29 Yeah. 

 

19:30 What, what, uh, you know, as you, as you talk with entrepreneur groups and you mentor and you help people through,  that launch phase, what do you feel like the most common bit of of advice you're giving them is? 

 

19:42 Um, I, I, I, I think a, what I find a lot of times is that, um, you know, like, and I, I, I'll also say like sometimes I, I fall into this trap too. Like you get so wrapped up in the mouse trap that you're building. That like you don't, you, you, you, you put on blinders and you don't see the, the bigger picture sometimes. And I think that a lot of times. Um, and I, I think that that's why it's good to get like third parties to like, take a look at what you're doing and, and give you, you know, sanity checks. Uh, be because when you, when you're so focused on it, it, it's very easy to lose sight of that. 

 

20:27 You get lost in your own words. You get lost in your own terminology. Like everything kind of becomes all you think about all day. And it is so nice to have that third party. Well, listen, I absolutely love this conversation. Uh, clearly you're someone who, um, who's gonna be a help, be able to help people who watch this episode understands some of the intricacies of just knowing, like, growing is fun. Launching is fun, but knowing that there is an end insight gives a lot of peace and a lot of, uh, a lot of focus. To get to that point so that you're not stuck in this endless cycle of I being trapped in your business.

 

21:07 Yeah. 

 

21:08  Because I think that happens to a lot of people.

 

21:10 I, I, I, I thank you. I, I appreciate the kind words and, uh, you know, really enjoyed talking. Yeah. This has been a lot. This is a lot of fun for me.

 

21:17 Perfect. How do people get ahold of you? Do, are you active on any social media? Can people follow you anywhere?

21:23 Sure. I, I'm very active on LinkedIn. And, and, and, uh, that, that's probably the, the social network. That's the, that's the best one. My email address is also sanjib - san  j i b @guppy.ai - [email protected] too, if you wanna reach out to me directly.

 

21:40 Perfect! Sanjib, I appreciate so much your time today. I know this is gonna help impact people who are out there thinking what does it take to scale? So thanks so much for being on today. 

21:51 Thank you very much, Todd. I really appreciate it.